New state, new man. Patricia Kopta eventually developed dementia, police said. Looking at the pictures of the scene, after 4 months of the bodies being there allegedly, they were untouched? "This is the 13th case solved after the creation of the cold case task force," said El Dorado County District Attorney Vern Pierson. Patricia and her defense team denied that allegation and said she owned her home, had no financial Why bother with this site, which isnt for professional criminalists/forensic scientists, if youre going to get so tetchy and rude? Her jealousy and rage because Joann told her to not contact her husband set her off. It was her father, Yaser Said who committed the crime of killing his two innocent teen daughters. I am outraged at the rush to judgment displayed by the LAPD, wrote Michelle Alexander, civil rights attorney and author of the influential book, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, in a letter to Patricia. And then in their zealous efforts to show their ire, feel the need to suggest anyone who supports her is deluded. The state made a case fueled by circumstantial evidence and public outrage over the deaths of a modern-day madonna and child. There was a blood-stained fingernail and hair found on the victims body, and even though (in Keith Morrisons Dateline documentary) the Asst. Ten months after Joann died he murdered another woman (who looks just like her) and her baby, as well. Feb 7, 2017 Patricia A. Giddings, seated beside Keeseville-based attorney Jacob Painter in Clinton County Court on Tuesday, spoke only to affirm she understood the proceedings. Oh, and she was so obsessed with him that she started dating and found herself a boyfriend that was not only younger, but much more attractive than Andy? Roughly nine months ago, Interpol contacted the police department that kept her file open. I had five children to take care of and it was costing me so much money to travel two hours from Riverside to Los Angeles and sit in court all day, Patricia said. I think Patricias defenders are implying the hair came from some unknown person. It says that Andrew reported the cut phone lines and broken pad lock was reported to the police at 10:30. If in the woods in a rural area, no animal, rodent or insect touched those bodies? From what Ive seen its pretty obvious Patricia did do that to this poor woman and the baby. Too many people testified as to the type of person she was. (A good point. She killed a mother and child and now has all of you eating out of the palm of her hand about how mistreated she has been. Im inclined to think both Rorrer and Routier are guilty. Through that testing, the elderly patient was confirmed to be the same woman locally known in Pittsburgh as a street preacher called The Sparrow who vanished and left her family flummoxed. Were suppose to ignore the actual forensic evidence and forensic opinions because we were told that a cop overheard her claiming she confessed? And the fact that Patricia called Andrew even after he married someone else didnt mean she was still carrying a torch for him, according to one of her friends. I noticed quite a few errors myself. Until next time, cheers. She had a suitcase packed, Devine said. Youre so fixated with her guilt, youre unable to see other factors that show this case to be a disgraceful travesty. Book her. She won't see them graduate from college. According to court papers from Patricia 2017 appeal, DNA on the cigarette butt found near the two bodies belonged to Appellant. (Prosecutor Michael McIntyre, however, told ForensicFilesNow.com that that the cigarette butt was never actually tested). You took my family all in one night," she said. Simpson says there is reasonable doubt in Murdaugh murder case, Ex-Beyond Meat COO pleads guilty to felony after taking a bite out of strangers nose in uncontrollable rage following football game, Mullet streaker bellyflops into pond at pro golfs Greatest Show on Grass before hes arrested, 'I'm a father and I couldn't do this': Florida man convicted of murdering almost 3-month-old baby boy, Jan. 6th rioter who stole Officer Michael Fanone's badge following Capitol assault pleads guilty, 'We really thought she was dead': Long-missing Pennsylvania woman discovered alive in Puerto Rico after 30 years, 'Things went horribly wrong': Devastated family sues mortuary over wrongful cremation, 82-year-old woman pronounced dead at nursing home, but funeral home found her breathing: Authorities, California Cops Looking For Man Who Left Human Remains On Police Station Counter, Why Man Who Sued Sheriff For Wheel of Fugitive May Have Claim: Analysis. Wow. The prosecution alleged that Patricia called the Katrinaks house from a pay phone in Pennsylvania. But it doesnt make a nonsense of her being the shooter, regardless of their speculation. ST. JOHNSBURY A three-year nightmare for the loved ones of Melissa Jenkins is one step closer to ending. The trial was taking so much of my time. Both were deceased. Patricias professional life included short-lived gigs as a Century 21 real estate agent and an Oldsmobile salesperson. The reason Interpol was involved is because all three had different European citizens, as a result of which it was very difficult to follow the thread of the event. He gave an audio interview to the Wrong Man investigators when they made a surprise visit to his house, but he declined to appear on camera. so then using your contention, one who is deeply religious and sees God as being a factual figure is wrong? Barry Grube, one of the few, if not only, police officers sympathetic to Patricias cause, noted that Andrew didnt seem particularly frantic while authorities searched desperately for his wife and son. Have a tip we should know? The fact that there is LITERALLY NO EVIDENCE that Patricia was actually obsessed with Andy; they spoke as friends maybe twice a year. Im sorry Sally, I know you want someone to blame for the death of your daughter and grandson, but the person who actually killed her is serving a life sentence in another facility in Pennsylvania. CHOOSE1s Three Strikes Reform Act needs 500,000 signatures by July 17 to make the November ballot, CHOOSE1 files new initiative to reform Californias Three Strikes law, The First Friday doc premieres this week at the New Parkway. I made the confession on tape that I had rehearsed with the LAPD, said Larry Wright. Your email address will not be published. But to settle for just anyone being the offender offers no justice to the victims and certainly does no merit to those who are woefully lacking in ALL the details of this case, but nevertheless feel the need to vent their spleen on an innocent person. I want to know why no one has answered this question: if there was no root found on the hair clutched in Joanns hand how was the lab able to produce all those results that could not have been found without roots??? I dont see any defining comment or wording that justifies that claim. On December 12, 1994, Joann answered a phone call from a woman shed never met, Patricia Rorrer, her husbands onetime girlfriend. It was total shock. You are correct the bodies were not there all that time, and it seems odd that they baby taken at 3 month, but when found he was 6 months according to Wrong Man. I believe in Patricias innocence and she deserves to be freed, at last! Patricias accusers theorized that she resented Joanns domestic bliss with the tall, athletic Andrew Katrinak. Joann was fun, likable, beautiful, always happy, said her sister-in-law Cindy Wiard. Mark and Patricia McCloskey, the St. Louis couple that infamously pointed guns at demonstrators who were marching past their house last summer, have pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges in the incident. It says that Andrew Katrinak passed his lie detector test. THESE COPS ARE WRONG AND THEY ALL SHOULD BE IN JAIL FOR WHAT THEY DID TO PATRICA, PUTTING HER AWAY FOR LIFE FOR SOMETHING SHE DID NOT DO. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Theyre just not willing to investigate/research as to the truth. In April 1995, the family buried Joann and Alex in a single bronze casket after a funeral mass at a Bethlehem church. She had a history of violence over men, and she had access to the dump site from frequent visits. Allen and Patricia Prue were arrested two days after Jenkins' death. Highly charged case. Police identified the pair as Joann and Alex Katrinak. The phone wire was located at the opposite end of the basement, which was dark. In April 2019, 69-year-old Patricia was found guilty of second-degree murder and the use of a firearm in the commission of a felony. Andy passed not one but two polygraph tests and had a solid alibi. Yeah, no. The Dallas Morning News revealed that Patricia said, "All I can say is there's going to be justice," after waiting for 12 years of pain of losing her children. The obvious, if moot, response to this is to observe that her conviction wasnt based on inaccurate documentaries but on trial. She didnt need to have owned all the guns she ever used, nor to have owned the gun she in fact used. Patricia was relieved when police took him for custody after 12 years of her daughter's murder. Shes where she belongs in prison for the rest of her life. How could I explain to my daughter years later that I took a plea for something I didnt do? she said. "Most of the community feels bad for the child To see that in the United States bugs me. Patricia had a knack for writing strong headlines, which won her first place in a 2012 national contest. According to Marsicovetere, state programs should be focused on intervening to help those with mental illnesses at the earliest point possible. WebShe is as guilty as her husbandshe KNEW that her husband would kill these girlsshe even STATED that he would kill the girlsand yet she lied to them to get them to return to Texas Not everything is a conspiracy. 2023 FOX Television Stations, Rockwall-Heath coach resigns after school workout investigation, Things to do this weekend in Dallas-Fort Worth: March 3-5, Dallas 14, 15-year-olds charged with murder, Prosper man who shot neighbor's pit bull will not face charges, Watch: New video from Hubble space telescope captures asteroid-smashing debris from successful DART mission, New street drug 'tranq dope,' rots skin, turns humans into 'zombies', 3 children killed, 2 hurt in Italy, Texas, Biden has cancerous skin lesion removed from chest, doctor says, Severe weather video and photos from around North Texas, Suspected North Texas scented candle thieves allegedly stole $27,774 worth of items. Anyone who thinks this psycho isnt guilty needs to take off their tin hat. Most of your comment absolutely astonishes me. According to court documents, Yassein and Islam Said had been communicating with Yaser Said since Jan. 1, 2008, to help him evade capture. Now retired, he declined ForensicFilesNow.coms invitation to spar directly with Patricia via a podcast. All 3 of her alibis were lies, DNA tied her to the murder, there was no sexual assault, she had a violent past, was obsessed with Andy, and was caught lying about owning a gun, which coincidentally jammed after firing once and shell cases were found on her property. Patricia McCloskey pleaded guilty Thursday to misdemeanor harassment and was fined $2,000. I had never been in jail before and I wasnt allowed to go outside. Owens called him "the devil" and said he deserved a punishment much tougher than life in prison. That poor child and that poor woman. Cop defends accused. My biggest issue is the day the phone call came in, and the fact that the prosecutor deliberately misrepresented the facts. All the sources said the same thing either exposure or suffocation, but no certainty about which one. One lengthy sentence which goes on and on and concludes with one of my sentences from a previous comment! Nailed? Said tried to blame the FBI for not searching for an unknown person, he said, was the real killer. Those that think that Patricia is innocent are simply groping at straws. MY STATE OF MIND is based on factual information. So would judge and jury say. Although the prosecution used it as evidence that she was trying to create a false alibi, it actually sounded more like Patricia was simply trying to nail down the facts he had already asserted to her. You took my life. WebAmina and Sarah Said were murdered by their father Yaser Abdul Said an Egyptian immigrant on January 1st 2008. . The difference between the cases was that the child was not injured and the individual wrote down the details of the plan in a notebook, but otherwise it seems extremely similar to me. He would be alive today if it were not for Patricia Rorrer. The mild-mannered Sarah died in 2019 at the age of 83. Yes, that doesnt mean shes unquestionably guilty, but it does mean her case has been relatively exhaustively examined (and its not over) and it means that your assertion that you are right and the guilty camp are wrong (and that this should be obvious) is absurdly overplayed. This was a horrible and brutal double murder and whoever did it needs to be locked up forever. How do you explain her not telling the truth to the authorities about the gun and its flaw of only able to shoot once and then jamming up. Calling her ex because she just likes to stay in touch w peopleLOL! Yassein and Islam Said face up to 30 years in federal prison. But I agree with a recent comment.. Why not do a paternity case so just that is done and out of the way. Its nine minutes into the video. There is way too much doubt in this case for my comfort. Patricia McCloskey, who menaced the marching crowd with her finger on the trigger of a handgun, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor harassment and was ordered to pay a WebThe prosecution said Patricia wanted Jeromes $30,000 life insurance policy. How do you explain the authorities finding .22mm shell casings at her home during the search warrant. Even after 12 years of frustration and dead-ends, the pursuit for their killer never ceased, Spivey said in a statement. Prue is currently serving a life sentence with the eventual opportunity for parole. Its sad that some people just cant move on and continue to feel that what they want is going to be THEIRS regardless. They theorize that Andrew Katrinak framed Patricia and that the hostile phone call between Patricia and Joann actually took place not on Dec. 12 as Andrew said but rather on Dec. 7. And for you to even ask why documentaries are biased, makes me wonder if you have the ability to determine fact from fiction! Dont even think about arguing with me until they DNA test that hair and the broken fingernail found on her body; Ill just laugh at you. I thought the justice system in my state and the people were narrow-minded and corrupt. Thats because they knew it was a stretch to make anyone believe she would still be so enraged a week and a day later that she jumped into a van and drove 550 miles to kill a woman and baby she never met. Perhaps youre not aware, there was a great deal of evidence of which these documentaries made no mention, as well as misdeeds and incidents of corruption perpetrated by the cops. Media galore. So, lets take your response one step at a time. During the tour Alfey was able to slip away into a room that was made for a little boy. They depict scenes which are pure speculation or exaggeration or present scenes, which in fact were only theories mentioned at her trial. neither her nor there couldnt be linked to her. For goodness sake, it was never proved at her trial she used the gun the police so steadfastly offered as evidence or for that matter, ANY OTHER GUN. That poor child who grew up with no mom for absolutely no reason. However, Said never called 911. At one point Interpol had an extremely similar case in which an individual convinced a friend, who had been his sexual partner several times in the past, to kill the woman he had a baby with, on the grounds that the child is not his and he does not love her but cannot leave because everyone would accuse him of abandoning his child and his family name would be affected. WebTexas-born Patricia (Tissie) Said, the mother of the two girls, should long ago have been charged as an accomplice in their honor killing. Blasczyk said she is pleased with the outcome of the case. The Common Sense Guy you should put yourself on top of the list of deluded people. I comment on these forums because they are the only places offering the opportunity to, hopefully, bring awareness to those whore unfamiliar with this case and her unfair plight. It took jurors about three hours to convict Said for the deaths of his daughters Amina and Sarah in 2008. How do you know this woman wasnt obsessed with him and wanted his wife out of the way? Catherine are you sure your names not Karen? And dance instructor William Jarrett couldnt remember whether she attended his dance class at the club the night of Joanns disappearance. Nobody said bodies were intact. Within about seven months of Larry being placed in a maximum-security prison, the LAPD paid him a visit. Or did they? Forensic tests suggested the hair found in the car and at the murder scene came from Patricia. Traupman died in 2016. He tried to claim someone else murdered them and that the night his daughters were killed someone was following them. Ive found that in nearly every case, those who are firmly of the opinion shes guilty have an extremely limited knowledge of the case theyve watched one (or perhaps more) of the documentaries which make absolutely no attempt to show anything thats in Rorrers favour (theres plenty, if one bothers to look), and worse, revel in exaggerated and speculative scenes, some of which were never even mentioned at her trial. Patricia Owens called her ex-husband Yaser Said the devil for allegedly murdering their two daughters at his trial in Dallas on Aug. 4, 2022. I agree. Two problems, then: a failure to see your own position as you see others (failure to comprehend irony), and failure to understand the difference between fact and opinion. Animals would have for sure. No other suspect has existed that would have a motive to kill Joann. And in a piece of salacious testimony, Patricia Rorrers half sister, Sandra Ireland, said that in May 1995, about six months after the murder, their mother, Patricia Chambers, stopped by the house and asked her to hold onto or hide a gun, or both. Ive heard she gets to go out to LUNCH and this broad is in prison for murdering her husband Russ Stager? Tiffany, it is amazing you have all the answers to these murders! This response of yours neatly sums up your dogmatic view of her guilt despite so much evidence to the contrary. You ought to acquaint yourself thoroughly with the case and not allow yourself to get any further elevated on your high horse. I most definitely will not personally afford Patricia a platform, Michael said in an email to ForensicFilesNow.com She had her chance to answer my questions and tell her story in court over 20 years ago. John If you feel it so necessary to post a comment, please at least try to keep it original, because theres nothing sensible with your juvenile attempt using my words. That's counting the nine bullets you put in Sarah. I have not SEEN this report that says no root found is there a picture of it online somewhere? It fails to mention the car was totally clean of any other forensic residue. And your contention that you (me) as ONE person are wrong, let me say that while you seem to be determined in singling me out as someone whos opinion is one against the rest, is hopelessly exaggerated. Its true that women were more idiots than about men, they had the impression that if they caught a fool to take them as wives, they would settle for life, even today we see that but more diluted, still an exaggerated reason for murder. And yikes, he discovered someone had cut one of the houses phone lines and pried the hinge on the basement door. It wasnt aimed at any one video producer. A lot of these documentaries feature most of the theories suggested by the cops and prosecution which were most damaging to her case, but not a single person to substantiate Rorrers side, or to challenge their versions. But thats just some of the ammo on Team Patricias battleship. American Airlines, flight attendants file for mediation during contract negotiations, New Uptown office tower lands second major lease, Years after North Texas bid for Amazons second headquarters, retail giant halts plan, Mesquite to become the site of new 2,500-home community, North Texas builders see influx of activity in new year, but challenges persist, Mark Wahlberg pours tequila for fans at Dallas restaurant during thunderstorm, The Cowboys are closer than you think to a total makeover at running back, 12 Dallas-Fort Worth restaurants that have closed in 2023, Dallas Cowboys focused on adding another dynamic offensive weapon, Mark Wahlberg sirve tequilas en un restaurante en Dallas durante la tormenta, Jerry Jones talks Dak Prescotts Tom Brady-esque qualities and more from the NFL combine. But let me say in my defence, I have not attacked anyone on this particular site with outright rudeness, to which you allude, albeit some of them deserved a retort of some substance. Theres also the matter of a woman who suddenly remembered she saw Joann with another man at a Food Mart store five days after the disappearance. They retested the hair for DNA evidence with updated technology definitely Patricias hair case closed. She said that she has no idea why her ex-husband killed her daughters. In a million years, she wouldnt do anything to harm that.. And last but not least, the fact that Michael McIntyre comes across as mentally unstable. She definitely did it. All that remains is the conclusion of an appeal that Prue's husband Allen Prue has made to the Vermont Supreme Court following his October conviction in Jenkins' murder. First it was winter, cold temperatures preserve bodies for significantly longer periods. His nephew, Islam, the brother to Amina and Sarah and son to Yaser, pleaded guilty to the same charges in June 2021 and received 10 years. The criminal, a crazy with a psychotic crush on a man, the planner a individual with a lot of self esteem and narcissistic charm who can persuade women, was rich thought compared to the individual in this case, and the victim, a woman who saw her life only as a wife and mother and had no other pretensions, and that even if she had threatened the individual that she would leave a few times, she always stayed. Ill always say that Tommy Lynn Sells murdered the Routier boys OR the father Darrin did it. Police were led to the Prues by a business card found in Jenkins' home for Allen Prue's snow-plow business and a report that the Prues had called Jenkins about trouble with their vehicle. If the answer is no, enough said! Im trying to understand exactly your reasoning asking me staying away from this site because of my insulting remarks! Im sorry for the distress this awful business must have caused. Her diary certainly indicates some disturbed thinking. Relatives at the time told cops that Yaser threatened bodily harm against Sarah for going on a date with a non-Muslim. You people are fighting a losing cause! Suzanne Pearson fabricated quotes from Patricia including her claim that Patricia said, Im going to the electric chair upon her arrest because a conviction would boost Pearsons career. I decided to just plead guilty to get it over with.. It all gave jurors a lot to think about but only for six hours. Nope. Did Patricia have the dyed blond hair when they broke up in 1993? But in October 1998, the LAPD established a cold case task force and reopened the murder case 17 years after Jerome Scotts death. Police theorize she owned the gun, but its neither here nor there whether she used a particular gun to kill and would make sense (to a wise perp) that the gun couldnt be linked to her by past activity. She was always looking for a fight, Gary Gabard told the Morning Call, which noted that he was a head shorter than Patricia. She has always denied this allegation and says that both she and Lawrence Slaughter are innocent. DA readily agreed they did not belong to Rorrer, was happy to admit they were never submitted for analysis. What did the ME report as to the age of the baby? Blasczyk said she escaped from East Germany as a teenager when the country was under Communist leadership. Andy did end up moving to Colorado with her and the last time I checked, they were still together. Look into it. It was winter which are cold in PA and would slow down decomposition and minimize insect activity although you are correct about the rodentswhy were there none? I happen to be one of those deluded people youre so freely attempting to insult. If that really is the case, the husbands alibi for a date months before becomes irrelevant. She failed miserably to convince me, or anyone else who mattered, of her innocence. What the prosecution failed to disclose to Rorrers defence team was that the cops, in their zeal to prove their gun theory, visited several addresses of which Rorrer was resident, dug up the gardens in which she was known to do target practice recovered several shell casings and bullets (more than 70), had them ballistically tested, but NOT ONE was found to be a match to the bullet recovered from the victim. OK my GUESS is Patricia did do it! At 17, Patricia dropped out of high school and married landscaper Gary Gabard. After all, justice has been served in the eyes of the law, so why go on demonising her? I think we need to realize that each dollar we spend or don't spend could have a serious impact on our society and our safety.". The only record of a call from Patricia to the Katrinak household was on 12/7/94. They need to test that hair from Joanns hand and also that broken fingernail. In summer, after thawing, there will be small animals eating the body and even turkey vultures, but not so much in the winter. Yaser Said was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the murder of his two daughters Amina and Sarah Said in 2008. The 5-foot-9-inch-tall Patricia was physically strong, no match for 5-foot-4-inch Joann. Jenkins was reported missing after her vehicle was found idling with her 2-year-old son inside. Hair we go. Meanwhile, the case of the missing mother and baby turned into colossal news across the U.S. and internationally. It was Patricias hair no question. Soon after, Kopta lost her job because she was seeing things and her behavior was disruptive, and then she began to walk the streets to spread her message. Yaser had been on the FBIs Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list since 2014, according to CBS. Murder in Lehigh Valley: Keith Morrison Reports is also available on YouTube, but it costs $1.99 to view (Keith comes off as an advocate for Patricias innocence on the episode). I didnt know about the supposed SIDS death of Rorrers first-born. Senate Bill 1399, the compassionate release bill signed into law a year ago, allows prisoners who are permanently and medically incapacitated to be released from prison and into the care of family and caretakers. I fail to see exactly why someone cant have an opinion which he/she sees as fact. I also communicated with Patricia via email to get her input on some matters. Patricias accusers theorized that she resented Joanns domestic bliss with the tall, athletic Andrew Katrinak. She took out the woman who replaced her. An infant was lying face down on her stomach. Together they had a baby girl, Nicole. As for the idiots who didnt think Ms. Rorrer guilty of anything more sordid than having zero taste, the simple fact(s) are that: 1) what they claim about such testing (as was done to the hair) wasexcuse me, IS wrong both due to the follow-up AFTER the mDNA test results were made only proved more concretely that Ms. Rorrer WAS the person the hair came from, 2) the inanity about thinking Andy had something to do with it (the simple fact that ALL investigations START by checking the closest, most immediate relative, i.e, a spouse), was after his being thoroughly vouched, to NOT be in ANY way involved, 3) since this case, forensic science has only improved by huge leaps, and that no one including the courts or the Innocence Project will get involved should make it VERY clear, this case is CLOSED. This information was never revealed to Rorrers defence. In pleading guilty, Islam Said admitted that evidence proved he committed the crimes charged in the superseding indictment filed in November 2020. And James Pfeiffer and Jim Burke have remained on her side. I dont even know its Christmas.. The Charley Project offers details of the womans life before she went missing: She walked throughout the city, approaching strangers and telling them shed had a vision of the Virgin Mary and the world was about to end. She believed she was chosen as one of Gods 144,000 bond servants on earth, and gave up all her other hobbies, such as dancing, to devote her life to spreading the word of God. So where they alive somewhere, and if so how could of Patricia, who was questioned, with not one mark on her kill them? She is a D-FW native with a B.A. You say by definition! Does it actually have to be an obligatory duty for anyone to be present at a trial before they are able to have an opinion? Am I missing something? And while youre on that list, you can be happy in the knowledge youre not in rarefied company. From my point of view this is an extremely similar case, with less class and style, and without the luxurious details that Interpols case had, such as the involvement of an extremely expensive Alfa Romeo car, and a revolver bought at a lush auction in Paris, which had belonged to a duke before the incident.